Rats-Keeping them outside.

[godzilla]

Hello all,
I'm just wondering if it's safe to keep rats outside. Ie; In a large aviary set up. We keep our budgies there and we might be getting rid of them. It's quite a large aviary, about the size of a usual closet. We usually keep a large blanket over it during the night.

Anyone have any clues or first-hand experience with outside rats?

-David.

[Colleen]

First of all, where do you live??
It would be ok to keep them outside, and i know a few people who do, especially when they have a large colony of rats that dont fit inside lol.
Hopefully someone can confirm this for me, but i believe it helps with respiratory problems to keep them outside, it must be the fresh air or something
But rats are sensitive to extreme weather. Cold weather can weaken their immune systems, so its very important to make sure they have plenty of warm places to sleep and their cage is well covered from the weather - wind, rain etc – so it would be a good idea to have the aviary on a porch, or sheltered corner of you house, and put some tarps up to block the wind and rain.
In summer they need to be in shade all the time, and have access to lots of water to drink and even to swim in, as well as plenty of cool/frozen water bottles for them to lie on. On extremely hot days however, you need to be prepared to bring them inside, as heat, more than the cold in Australia, is deadly to rats!!
Depending on where you live, you need to carefully of snakes in summer, and neighbourhood cats and dogs... you don’t want any accidents
Being an aviary, which is currently housing budgies, make sure it is thoroughly cleaned out before you put it into use for your rats. And never leave them outside all the time, they still need you affection and attention eg kisses and cuddles, and will still love to get out of their cage and run around and play with you

[godzilla]

I live in the south eastern suburbs of Melbourne. It can get between temperatures of 3 degrees to 45 degrees (The very extremeties).
The cage if fairly large, and is kept outside under a large porch like thing. It never gets wet and is partially sheltered by a semi-permanant trailer. The reason why I would keep it outside is because of my mother, she seems to dislike rats and thinks the smell -alot-, because of experiences with her friends large colony of mice. The other reason is because we don't have a lot of inside space which is alright for keeping rats. (We own alot of old antiques) and because of the smell. Also, we own a cat and a dog, of which the dog is kept inside the front part of the house (locked with a wooden sliding door) at night and the cat is usually kept outside (for bladder reasons). I don't see a problem with temporarily housing them inside if it gets to cold or hot.
And -of course- they'll be free roaming with me whenever I can.

On another note, what does everyone think of owning a cat and a dog, and getting a rat?... My cat is quite evil and my dog is very.. excitable with other animals.
Yet another note is my dad seems to think if I kept my rats outside, wild rats, snakes and other animals might be attracted to our house. (We seem to have a large colony of wild mice down near our local station, I swear they are there )

Thanks again,
-David.

[Colleen]

Rats smell a lot less than mice, but even so, they can get a little stinky (males more than females) if their cage is not cleaned out properly, or they are only confined to a small area of the house.
I wouldnt keep my rats outside, BUT thats only because i very fortunately have the room inside to keep the cage and all my family adore rats! however as thats not the case for you, it would be fine to keep them outside as long as you keep in mind what i said, which i know you will

I own a dog too, he is more of an inside dog than anything lol, and he is Jack russel x basenji - a hunting dog - so all he wants to do is kill anything thats moves and isnt another dog!!! so for that reason the rats are shut behind doors in a passage of our house. we owned rats and our dog together fine! no accidents happened fortunately, but you still need to be careful. often cats can get along with rats fine, but only time will tell if your cat is ok with rats. the best idea is to make sure the cage is secure, with plenty of hidie-holes, and maybe if your cat realises that he cant get into the cage, he may just ignor the rats.

im sorry i cant answer you question about wild rats and other animals being attracted to the cage,... maybe someone else can answer that for you

[christie]

I personally wouldn't keep my rats out side, but that's prolly because i wouldn't keep any pets out side 24/7. I don't spend much time out side myself and therefore my animals wouldn't get the attention they do now.

As Colleen said though if you do keep them out side you'll have to keep a careful watch of the temperature, make sure they have lots of warm places to snuggle up together in winter, and LOTS of water, ice cubes and cold foods in the summer time.

Being out side I would also worry about them catching things like lice/mites and other kind of bugs from animals in the area. Plus keeping the neighbor hood cats away from them to.

In regards to them attracting wild mice, i don't think you will have a problem there. In the wild rats will eat mice, so more than likely the mice will stay away when they realise there are rats in the area. Wild rats on the other hand might be attracted, either because of the food, breeding or territorial reasons. Also if there are wild rats around there is more chance they will bring bugs to your pets.

But I'm pretty sure there is one or two people on this forum who do keep their rats out side, so hopefully they will give you some ways to keep all the dangers away.

[godzilla]

Thanks for your replies guys.
Yeah, the outside business is only when I'm not at home/are asleep, because my parents not liking the apparent terrible smell. When I'm at home I was hoping they could hang out in my room.
Do you mind if I ask what you guys use for cages? or what you finds the best?

Again thanks,
-David.

[Colleen]

It really depends on how much money you are willing to spend on a cage, and how big is too big for you house, and for the number of rats you're going to get. how many rats do you want to get??
for example, the best cage on the market would be the ferret kingdom cage - cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130338667987 - however it is rather large (can hold up to 12 rats i think) and would be too large for an inside cage with limited room in your house. and if you are only getting two rats, maybe a smaller cage would be better. it is also expensive and can only be bought over the internet as far as i know.

sorry about the long link... but have a look at this cage. it's probably the best small cage out there for two rats: cgi.ebay.com.au/Rat-Cage-Ferret-cage-Large-3-Tiers-with-removal-tray_W0QQitemZ120497263629QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Pet_Supplies?hash=item1c0e32540d

Although many people i know have been dissatisfied with the size of that cage - being a little too small for 2 rats - it is a good size for an inside cage, and if you allow your rats heaps of time out of the cage there shouldn't be too many complaints.
Another option is just browsing through ebay, the trading post etc.. and checking out your local pet stores/warehouses to see what you can find, so you know whats available out there. I suppose the advantage of housing your rats outside is that the size doesn't matter

[godzilla]

The ferret one seems a bit big, heh. Even for outside at my home.
The smaller seems a good size, especially for inside, but .. with the wire footing, I've heard of something called bumblefoot? Wouldn't that be an issue with those kind of wire cages?
What do you use for bedding/flooring?
Do you a bowl or bottle for water?

Thanks,
-David.

[christie]

The Ferret Kingdom is a huge cage, I love it.

Bumblefoot isn't caused by wire flooring at all, its really mostly caused by dirty cages. The germs build up on the wire, or solid floor and if there is a small cut or abrasion on your rats foot then the germs get in. So as long as things are nice and clean your going to be fine. But you can choose to cover the flooring anyways if you prefer, i always do and litter train my guys. I use fleece for liners and breeders choice cat litter for the litter tray.

Also a water bottle is best for the cage as it keeps the water nice and clean and the rattys cant knock it over as easily. Though some rats still enjoy a small bowl of water sometimes to wash with and cool down with in the heat.

[dimruthien]

First of all, I have a Ferret Kingdom with a colony that ranges anywhere from 5 - 10 rats, depending on my inability to stop buying moar! I keep them outside. Yep, outside. I cop a lot of flak about this on various communities.

However, there are a few clauses that go with that. My rats live under the verandah (we have a 2-storey house) sheltered from rain, wind and sun.

I live in Darwin which, contrary to popular belief, is actually not -that- hot. Temperature ranged from 25-35 year round. In the monsoon season the humidity takes a sharp increase up to 100%. So my rats are never, ever exposed to -extreme- temperatures. During cyclones they come inside, obviously.

My rats are treated regularly for parasites and illnesses. We have a large colony of R rattus hanging around but they don't bother my rats at all. I have on occasion found mauled birds next to the rat cage. Trust me when I say that rats are quite capable of killing small intruders, like birds landing on the cage. They're fierce, bite like f&^% and generally don't take no crap from small creatures in or around their cage. A territorial R Norvegicus is more than capable of beating the crap out of an R rattus! Just sayin'

You live in Melbourne. All year round you have extreme temperatures. In winter it gets down to freezing. In summer people die regularly in their homes. You are never temperate and you are not in a climate where I would be comfortable having any animal outside, let alone one that is sensitive to temperature.

I would advise against keeping rats outside in Melbourne, unless they only went outside on days where it was nice and temperate, not as a year-round thing.

If you are in an area with snakes, snake-proof the cages with snake and mouse mesh from Bunnings. In the past 2 years of keeping my rats outside I have had one snake near the rat cages. It was trying to get in but couldn't through the mesh. I no longer keep my cages snake-meshed but I live in the suburbs now (I used to live "out bush").

</2 cents>

[godzilla]

My mistake, I thought bumblefoot had something to do with rats getting their little feet stuck in the bars. I would probably organise to cover the bottom of the cage, and floors just in case.

@dimruthein. Truth be told, I've never noticed extremities in Melbourne, closest I've come is 0 degree showers in the out back. I'm starting to think I'll have to convince my parents of inside rats.
On another note, have you guys ever heard of rats being kept in outside laundry types of places? With on a small window and with a little breeze through the door.
How do your rats deal with the humidity?

[christie]

Well them getting their feet caught in the bars can be an issue if the bars are to big. But the cage that Colleen linked is fine on ratty feet. I had that cage for a few years before my FK and it was a good little cage.

[Colleen]

The next cage i get, i think i will cover the wire floor with some left over lino my grandparents have from when they renovated their house, easy to buy, and easy to clean

Yes i would be a good idea to try and convince your parents to have the rats inside, as melbourne weather is just to variable! unless you lived in Darwin, i wouldnt suggest it
I suppose if you did have an outside laundry or dunny Lol, providing it has adequate ventilation, that would be a better place to house rats than just having them on your back porch. it would provide much more shelter from the ailments, but would still get cold in summer and hot in winter especially if it has a tin room and no insulation.
Im sure humidity is not a problem for rats, if anything it does more good than harm, especially for rats with respiratory problems. but them again humid days can also be hot so, again, be careful of the heat.

[luvmyrats]

When i used to live at home my parents disliked me having rats. However they never prevented me from having them. (secretly i think my mum was an in the closet rattie fan, however dad wasnt so keen).

Have you thought of keeping them in your room? Open the windows, always have the fan on and if you provide adequate cleaning then there shouldnt be a smell problem at all.

At home i had just two girls with no smell problems. When i moved out I now have 8 rats - 6 girls and 2 boys. Boys smell muskier and need to be cleaned out a bit more often but i can get away without cleaning the girls cage out for a week and the smell not escape my room.

AND if i did get lazy or if i couldnt get around to cleaning - the ventilation (fan on, open windows) and a closed door keeps the smell at bay (my fan is always on, my door is always shut. noone would even know i had rats when they walk into my house) also then theres no chance other animals (dogs, cats, snakes etc) can get to your pets unless you let them.

Also then you can rat proof your room and it can become the safe place for free roaming time.

Another tip is to use things that you can clean easily in the cage, such as removable hammocks that u can chuck in the wash, wipe down surfaces (lino over the wire) and litter train them.

Just a thought and hope it helps

I had a friend that lived in a queenslander and kept her rattie kids under the house

[godzilla]

Yeah, it's pretty well ventilated. And the back porch is protected from three sides (Not really a porch, more like a car port {And why didn't I think of those words :S} Mostly covered from 3 sides.)
Unfortunately, room is a no-go, it took me 18+ months to get my mother used to the idea of me hanging up posters on the walls, something to do with blutak ruining the paint. I might have to wait until I move out or if I go live in the back bungalows, (Which incidently my older brothers did for years, and are more like outside bedrooms.)