Fighting

[chickweed]

I have two baby girl rats. One is 12 1/2 weeks and the other is a dwarf and is 9 weeks old. They have been together for a couple weeks and got along fine for a while but for the past couple days they have been fighting a lot, and its not playing its real fighting. No blood has been drawn. I think its the bigger one picking on the dwarf and food seems to be one cause of it. I plan on adding another food dish but if that doesn't work should I seperate them?

[Leeann]

Welcome Chickweed.

Fighting can be scary for us to hear and see, but if you follow the No Blood, No Foul rule, it will be ok.

They do make alot of noise, and run around the catch, chasing or trying to get away.

At 12 weeks old, they are nearly young adults and what is happening is they are working out who is alpha in the cage.
They will settle again, once they know their place in the group.

In the mean time, do add the second food bowl and possibly another water bottle, also have a second place for hiding or sleeping.

I can't say how long this stage lasts as it varies from cage to cage.

Keep posting and once you reach your 10 posts, you will have access to the rest of the forum, where there is a section on behaviour that you will find helps to understand why they do certain things at certain ages.

[chickweed]

Thanks I have been past 10 posts already for a few days, do you know how long it takes for the rest of the forum to open up?

[Kim]

Thats why we ask people to PM us here on the forum if they have been over 10 posts for a few days.

You could PM either Leeann above or myself as we both are able to give you access.

Remember Christmas time can be very busy so new members may not get access for a very long time because of us being so busy.



But now that I know, I will go and give you access right away.

[wulfyskingdom]

If you have any boxes or huts or anything that your rats can hide or nest in, i've read its a good idea to have 2 exits on them. That way the cornered rat can escape easier.

I think it was on the article I read about having 2 exits said the reason being was that the cornered rat will fight back and that can make it worse.

The article also talked about defensive gestures, different sounds emitted etc. I'll try and find it for you. It might help understand what they're doing if you catch them fighting.

[Kim]

Young rats play intensely with each other: they chase and flee, roll over and box, jump on each other and bounce around the cage.

In fact, they use many of the same behavioural sequences we see later in antagonistic encounters.

Play fighting in rats is different from adult fighting, however, in that it targets a different area of the body and may involve different tactics.

Play fighting involves attack and defense of the nape, while serious fighting involves attack -- with intent to bite -- and defense of the rump.

A juvenile and subordinate adult defends against nape attacks by (among other tactics) rolling over onto its back (belly-up roll) which hides the nape and rump from the attacker.

The attacker may stand over the rat on its back and may nibble at the sides of the belly (belly grooming), attempting to reach the nape. The pinned rat may peep and squeak.

Adult dominance hierarchies can be predicted from juvenile play fighting: oddly enough, the most frequent juvenile play-attacker becomes the subordinate rat after sexual maturity.



Your boys are more than likely working out who will be the boss (alpha). I do tend to find that with boys it is better to have 3 boys as then you have an Alpha and an Omega, so a top and bottom rat, with just 2 rats they can tend to fight more because there is no lower rat.

As Leeann said though, as long as there is no blood drawn, try not to worry too much.

[chickweed]

Dec 11, 2008 10:14:11 GMT 10 Kim said:

Young rats play intensely with each other: they chase and flee, roll over and box, jump on each other and bounce around the cage.

Okay, I was expecting that, I just wasn't expecting all the loud squeaking that sounded painful and stuff.

Your boys are more than likely working out who will be the boss (alpha). I do tend to find that with boys it is better to have 3 boys as then you have an Alpha and an Omega, so a top and bottom rat, with just 2 rats they can tend to fight more because there is no lower rat.

They are both girls.... so is two okay?

As Leeann said though, as long as there is no blood drawn, try not to worry too much.

Thank you everyone for replying, I feel much better. They've already got a hidey house and two hammock hideys, plus two levels in their cage. But I'm going to move them into a bigger cage, probably add a third hammock, a couple more food dishes, toys, a wheel, and a 2nd water bottle.

(P.S. I did email about the membership thing, I guess it just didn't go through.) Thank you for fixing it!

[Kim]

Dec 11, 2008 10:55:58 GMT 10 chickweed said:

They are both girls.... so is two okay?

3 are better with both girls and boys, especially if you find they are fighting a fair bit.

Sorry I called your girls boys I lost a boy the other day, so boys were on my mind when I replied.

The squeeking and sqealing always makes things sound worse than it is.

Dec 11, 2008 10:55:58 GMT 10 chickweed said:

(P.S. I did email about the membership thing, I guess it just didn't go through.) Thank you for fixing it!

It did probably go through, but sometimes I get on the forum when I am on my laptop as I do a fair bit of work on my laptop because that is where my Rat Care book is that I am currently writing and I dont have my rattery email set up on the laptop, because it would take up too much space.

So I dont get my emails every day, sometimes I can even go a week without getting on the main computer.

Its why I say to people to PM (private message) me here on the forum as I have access to the forum when I am on my laptop or computer, so I am more likely to get a message here at the forum quicker than via email.

[samsam]

I have read away and found this interesting thanks!

My alpha boy Soccertease has passed on =( My 3 boys have always fought and my bro has always got quite upset about it as its the favourite Nibbler that gets picked on. Nibbler is the youngest while the other two were brothers but if there was never any blood i never got too worried about seperating them to my isolation cage. But now the alpha is gone the fighting has been extreme and i'm worried maybe i should seperate them but then they may get lonely? Should i get another rat to make it to 3?

[ithinkismellarat]

rats fighting sounds a bit crazy. i guess as long as they dont get hurt.